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Podcast brief

C.S. Lewis on Objective Value and Men Without Chests

Caleb Ontiveros and Michael Tremblay discuss C.S. Lewis's The Abolition of Man and its case for objective value against emotivism.

A Stoa brief of an episode from Stoa Conversations

Men Without Chests | The Abolition of Man Part I (Episode 229)

Published 57 min

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The episode belongs to its makers. This page summarizes its arguments in Stoa's words and points to the moments where they are made. Brief updated .

The brief

C.S. Lewis's The Abolition of Man argues that a popular textbook's offhand subjectivism about value is really a substantive philosophical claim, one that quietly undermines both education and the possibility of debating what is good. Caleb Ontiveros and Michael Tremblay walk through the opening chapter of this short book, originally a set of lectures, to show how Lewis builds this case and what he thinks follows from it.

The trouble starts with what Lewis calls the Green Book, a textbook whose authors treat a statement like "the waterfall is sublime" as nothing more than a report of the speaker's feelings. Caleb explains that Lewis sees this as an unargued metaethical position smuggled into a lesson on grammar, one that quietly removes the possibility of correcting or debating value judgments. Michael connects this to emotivism and expressivism, academic theories emerging around the same time, and to the fact-versus-opinion distinction still taught in schools, which treats moral and aesthetic claims as mere personal belief and, in the same move, as less important than facts.

Against this, Lewis proposes that major traditions, Stoicism, Platonism, Aristotelianism, Christianity, and Confucianism among them, converge on a doctrine of objective value he calls the Tao. Caleb and Michael draw on Lewis's Platonic image of the "chest," the seat of trained sentiment that links reason to appetite, and his claim that an education which debunks all sentiment produces "men without chests": people praised as intellectuals who are actually marked by atrophied emotion rather than any special gift for truth. They bring in Aristotle's claim that education should train a pupil to like and dislike what he ought, and Epictetus's opening lines on desire and aversion, to argue that training feeling is not a side project for ethics but central to it.

One live disagreement surfaces here. Lewis treats emotion as distinct from judgment, something reason can and should govern but does not replace. The Stoics hold the harder view that emotions are themselves judgments, which changes what "training the chest" would even mean. Either way, the conversation leaves you with a usable question: does your own moral and aesthetic education train feeling, or only inform the intellect?

Strongest arguments

The Green Book smuggles subjectivism into education

6:31

Caleb explains that Lewis's pseudonymous Green Book authors treat the statement that a waterfall is sublime as merely a report of the speaker's feelings rather than a claim about the waterfall itself. Lewis sees this subjectivism as a substantive metaethical position being smuggled into an ordinary English textbook, with no argument given for it. This matters because it removes the possibility of genuinely debating or correcting value judgments.

Emotivism and expressivism as the underlying theories

10:10

Michael connects the Green Book's position to emotivism, the 'boo-hooray' theory that value claims just express approval or disapproval, and to expressivism, the view that calling something sublime expresses an internal feeling rather than describing the world. He notes these theories were emerging in academic philosophy around the same time Lewis was writing, and treats the textbook's stance as a popularized version of them.

The fact-versus-opinion distinction has the same effect

13:40

Caleb draws a parallel to the fact-versus-opinion distinction taught in schools, where facts are measurable and provable while opinions, including moral and aesthetic judgments, are treated as mere personal beliefs. He argues this framing implies both that value judgments cannot be adjudicated and that they are less important than factual claims, a double upshot Lewis is worried about.

Education should cultivate the right feelings, not just intellect

19:07

Caleb and Michael present Lewis's appeal to Augustine's definition of virtue as ordo amoris, the right ordering of one's loves, and Aristotle's claim that education aims to make a pupil like and dislike what he ought. They connect this to Epictetus's opening lines of the Handbook on desire and aversion, arguing that a central task of philosophy as a way of life is training emotional responses, not just reasoning correctly.

The Tao as a shared doctrine of objective value across traditions

25:45

Caleb reads Lewis's account of the Tao, or the Way, as the idea, found in Confucianism, Judaism, Platonism, Aristotelianism, Stoicism, and Christianity, that there is an objective reality that grounds value judgments. Michael observes that Lewis deliberately avoids making this a partisan Christian argument, instead treating the convergence across traditions as evidence for objective value.

The chest as the seat of trained sentiment linking head and belly

28:50

Drawing on Lewis's reading of Plato, Caleb and Michael describe the tripartite picture of reason, appetite, and the spirited 'chest' that links them through trained emotional habits. They discuss Lewis's example that sentimental attachment to a flag or country, not syllogisms, keeps soldiers at their posts under bombardment, arguing that a purely intellectual life is not sufficient for sustained right action.

Men without chests are emotionally, not intellectually, deficient

47:50

Michael quotes Lewis's description of the products of this miseducation as 'men without chests,' people wrongly called intellectuals who are not distinguished by any special skill at finding truth but by an atrophied capacity for generous emotion. The point is that a love of truth itself requires sentiment, so debunking all sentiment undermines the very intellectual virtues these people are praised for.

Disagreements

Whether emotions are judgments or separate from reason

41:32

Michael notes that Lewis's claim that the heart never takes the place of the head, but it can and should obey it, treats emotions as distinct from judgments that can be brought into harmony with reason, a broadly Platonic or Aristotelian view. He points out this differs from the Stoic position, which holds that emotions themselves are a kind of judgment rather than a separate faculty to be trained alongside the intellect.

Concepts discussed

  • Virtue Excellence of character, understood by the Stoics as the sole good and the basis of happiness.

Philosophers and works discussed

  • C.S. Lewis
  • Plato
  • The Abolition of Man By C.S. Lewis.

Questions this episode answers

  • What is C.S. Lewis's argument against subjectivism about value in The Abolition of Man?

    6:31

    Lewis argues that treating value judgments like 'that waterfall is sublime' as mere reports of feeling is a substantive and unargued philosophical claim being smuggled into education, one that removes the possibility of genuine debate and correction about values.

  • What does C.S. Lewis mean by the Tao in The Abolition of Man?

    25:45

    Lewis uses 'the Tao' as a name for the shared doctrine, found across Confucian, Jewish, Platonic, Aristotelian, Stoic, and Christian traditions, that there is an objective reality and order that grounds value judgments about what is good, beautiful, and true.

  • What does C.S. Lewis mean by 'men without chests'?

    47:50

    Lewis describes 'men without chests' as people produced by an education that debunks sentiment, who are wrongly praised as intellectuals but are actually marked by an atrophied capacity for generous emotion rather than any special gift for truth.

  • How does Aristotle think education should cultivate emotion alongside reason?

    19:07

    Aristotle holds that the aim of education is to make a pupil like and dislike what he ought, training positive emotional associations with virtuous actions before a child can fully grasp them intellectually, with intellectual understanding later reinforcing that emotional foundation.

  • How do the Stoics think about the role of emotion in a good life?

    20:56

    The hosts explain that Stoics care deeply about getting emotions right, holding that achieving knowledge produces the right emotional responses, and that Stoic practice involves both diffusing false, harmful value judgments and cultivating positive emotions tied to true judgments, such as awe at nature.

  • Can aesthetic judgments be objective in the way moral judgments can?

    43:20

    Caleb and Michael consider whether beauty judgments, like moral judgments, can be objectively true or false, weighing whether clearly false negative aesthetic judgments would indicate that aesthetic value is not purely subjective.

Related primary passages

Some things are in our control and others not. Things in our control are opinion, pursuit, desire, aversion, and, in a word, whatever are our own actions. Things not in our control are body, property, reputation, command, and, in one word, whatever are not our own actions.

Epictetus, Handbook 1 Read in context

This is the founding statement of the dichotomy of control, the axis the rest of Epictetus's teaching turns on.

Sources

  1. Epictetus, Handbook Primary text, Stoa library
  2. Stoa Conversations, Men Without Chests | The Abolition of Man Part I (Episode 229) Podcast episode, original episode