Podcast brief
Rebecca Goldstein on Why We Need to Matter
Rebecca Goldstein talks with David Edmonds about mattering, the human need to be deserving of attention, and the different projects people use to secure it.
A Stoa brief of an episode from Philosophy Bites
Rebecca Newberger Goldstein on Mattering
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The brief
Rebecca Goldstein argues that mattering is a distinct and partly normative concept: to matter is to be deserving of attention, not merely to receive it. The deepest version of this need, she says, is not whether others attend to us but whether we can justify to ourselves that we deserve our own attention, a capacity she ties to a distinctively human ability to step back and view ourselves from the outside.
Goldstein situates this concern historically. Drawing on Karl Jaspers's idea of the Axial Age, roughly 800 to 200 BCE, she argues that existential questions about mattering could only surface once material scarcity eased enough for people to ask what they were living for, rather than simply how to survive. This period, on her account, produced the major religions, Greek tragedy, and Greek philosophy as different responses to the same underlying need.
She then lays out an empirical taxonomy of four mattering projects: socializing, where people secure mattering through others, whether intimates, fame, or cult membership, transcending, where mattering comes from a relationship to a divine or cosmic being, heroic striving, where people pursue standards of excellence, and competing, where mattering is treated as zero sum, so that another person's or group's mattering is felt as a threat. Transcendent mattering, she suggests, is especially powerful, strong enough to motivate people to kill or die.
The strongest objection Goldstein confronts is her own: if mattering answers a universal need, is every mattering project equally legitimate? She resists this, arguing that projects can be normatively mistaken even while answering a real need. Her example is a former neo-Nazi, whose underlying longing to matter was genuine but whose project, built on denying other people's mattering, was a moral error. This leaves an open question about how to tell a legitimate mattering project from a corrupted one, beyond the test of whether it respects other people's equal claim to matter.
The conversation leaves the reader with a usable distinction: before pursuing a project that promises to make your life matter, ask whether it depends on diminishing someone else's claim to matter too.
Strongest arguments
Mattering is being deserving of attention
0:39Goldstein defines mattering as a partly normative concept: to matter is to be deserving of attention. This applies to what matters, who matters, and whether we ourselves matter, and it is distinct from merely being noticed.
The deepest need is to deserve our own attention
1:16Goldstein argues the crucial question is not whether others attend to us but whether we can justify to ourselves that we deserve our own attention. This capacity depends on self-reflective distance from ourselves, a trait she thinks is unique to humans among species.
Mattering as a historically situated concern
3:48Goldstein argues that existential questions about mattering could only arise once basic survival needs were secured, and she dates this shift to Karl Jaspers's Axial Age, roughly 800 to 200 BCE, when religions, Greek tragedy, and Greek philosophy emerged as ways of addressing these questions.
Four mattering projects
6:23Goldstein proposes an empirical taxonomy of four strategies people use to satisfy the mattering instinct: socializing (mattering to others, whether intimates or strangers, including through fame or cults), transcending (mattering to a divine being), heroic striving (pursuing standards of excellence), and competing (treating mattering as zero sum against individuals or groups).
Transcendent mattering explains extreme tenacity
10:27Goldstein argues that the belief that one matters to a transcendent, cosmic being is an especially strong form of mattering, strong enough to survive philosophical arguments against God's existence and strong enough to motivate people to kill or sacrifice their own lives.
Mattering projects can be normatively mistaken
16:16Goldstein insists mattering has a normative dimension, so some mattering projects are mistaken even though they answer a genuine and universal human need. She illustrates this with a pickup artist and an ex-neo-Nazi, arguing their underlying need was legitimate but the content of their projects, especially denying others' mattering, was a moral error.
The instinct to matter shows that we do matter
19:39Goldstein argues that the near-universal human longing to matter is itself evidence that humans matter, and that mattering projects go wrong specifically when they fail to recognize that everyone, not just oneself or one's group, has this same claim to mattering.
Philosophers and works discussed
- Rebecca Goldstein
- The Mattering Instinct: How Our Deepest Longing Drives Us and Divides Us By Rebecca Goldstein.
Questions this episode answers
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What does it mean to matter, according to Rebecca Goldstein?
0:39Goldstein defines mattering as being deserving of attention, a partly normative concept, and argues the deepest form of this need is to be deserving of one's own attention, which requires justifying one's existence to oneself.
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What is Karl Jaspers's Axial Age and why does it matter for existential questions?
3:48Goldstein explains that Karl Jaspers named the Axial Age, roughly 800 to 200 BCE, the period when scarcity eased enough for people in certain regions to shift from mere survival to asking existential questions, giving rise to the major religions, Greek tragedy, and Greek philosophy.
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What are the four ways people try to make their lives matter?
6:23Goldstein identifies four mattering projects: socializing, mattering through relationships to others including fame and cults, transcending, mattering through a relationship to a divine being, heroic striving, pursuing standards of excellence, and competing, treating mattering as zero sum against others.
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Why do people sacrifice their lives or kill for religious or transcendent beliefs?
12:03Goldstein argues that transcendent mattering, the belief that one matters to a cosmic, divine being, is such a strong form of mattering that it can override even the will to live, motivating people to kill or die to affirm it.
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Is the need to matter always a good thing morally?
17:48Goldstein argues the need to matter is a genuine and universal human need, but specific mattering projects can be normatively mistaken, as when a person's project depends on denying that other people or groups matter, which she illustrates with the case of an ex-neo-Nazi.
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What is the ancient Greek concept of kleos and how does it relate to fame?
8:53Goldstein describes kleos as the ancient Greek notion of glory or lasting fame, earned through deeds worthy of being sung by poets, and compares it to the modern, much easier route to fame through social media.